For this reading, I highlighted a few sentences in each part, mainly the ones I liked or the ones I wanted to analyze. Let me know if you all feel the same way or can help in my quest to understand Aristotle.
In part 2, Aristotle talks about anger and says "Again, we are angrier with our friends than with other people, since we feel that our friends ought to treat us well and not badly." So if those who we expect to make us angry make us angry, then is it not classified as anger? This one confused me because he is saying we have to have a sort of prefixed person for each emotion in order to bring out that emotion...or just anger for that matter.
In part 5, Aristotle says "we do not fear things that are a very long way off; for instance, we all know we shall die, but we are not troubled thereby, because death is not close at hand." But once death is close at hand do we start to become afraid of it? This also confused me because what happens when a teenager is presented with a death-like instance; do we feel fear right at that moment because we actually realize death is in our face or are we just like "hey, it's death, I've thought about you before, but you're no big deal."
For my interest in this line, I think it's related to me being too curious more than anything. In part 7 Aristotle says "kindness is great if shown to one who is in great need (cravings)...the appetites are cravings for this kind: sexual desire, for instance." Is this saying that if you give someone sex out of the feeling that they are craving it, i.e. horny, then you are being kind? This just struck me as odd.
If I could come up with a concluding line for these 11 parts then it would be that I think Aristotle is saying that the more you are feeling each emotion then the more each emotion is inclined to happen to you. If you are happy, then happy things happen; if you are envious, then you see more things that make you envious; etc., etc.
I think a modern-day look at the anger thing would be more along the lines of a stranger cutting you off in traffic vs. your best friend betraying you. You would be a lot angrier for a lot longer at the second one (at least, I hope so)-- this is someone you know well & have trusted, and then he does this to you? On the other hand, a bad driver may get a few minutes of your ire, an hour if traffic is really bad, and then you forget about it.
ReplyDeleteBut, if the stranger causes a wreck & you get injured, it would be a different matter entirely-- there would be a lot more entanglement while insurance, court cases, and so on are worked out. I don't think Aristotle is addressing that type of situation (and really, how could he have?).
I think your conclusion is spot-on, and actually it seems that Aristotle hit pretty close to the truth, too. After all, once someone gets angry, for a while everything tends to make them angrier. Same thing for someone who is really happy-- everything that happens either makes them happier or they just refuse to feel down about it because of being in such a good mood.
With Aristotle's view of the angry friend vs. the stranger, I think he was trying to point out that we get hurt more by those we know, like friends, because we don't expect them to do wrong towards us. I think Su's example of the bad driver vs. your best friend is a good representation of this claim. It shows that the negative actions of friends can have longer lasting feelings then those we don't know. It's almost like a difference between a slap in the face or a slap on the hand.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you behind your curiosity with Aristotle's kindness and needs. When I first read that quote, I too find myself confused. If we go by what Aristotle is saying, the notion of giving someone sex when they really want or in need of it would be considered kind. I can think of examples where this may apply, i.e a housewife being "kind" to her husband, but this does seem like a peculiar and extreme way to classify someone with this emotion.
Hi Reed,
ReplyDeleteYou brought up an interesting passage in Chapter 5, where Aristotle declares that we only fear the imminent(and thus, no-one fears death). I think Aristotle is only considering the prospect of death many years away. For Aristotle, fear is caused by "whatever we feel has great power of destroying us..." (Ch 5, Para 1). So I can eat a Big Mac without fear-I'm insulated from heart-disease by at least a couple of decades. But in your example, where the teenager faces a death-like instance, I think Aristotle would deem that worthy of fear (though cowardice was so detestable for ancient Greeks that it's hard to be sure).
I'm interested in whether anyone can explain why we DONT fear those terrible things which aren't imminently before us. For example, what motivates a person to do something like getting a prostate exam(a rather uncomfortable experience I imagine) if not the fear of EVENTUAL death? Is this more "worrying" than "fear"? Are the two distinguishable?
Hey Reed!
ReplyDeleteI love your paragraph about death. While reading it, I got a great mental image of some kid giving a grim reaper that 'talk to the hand' look. I do not think that's what Aristotle meant. I believe Aristotle was just making the point that we are more moved and motivated by events (be it rewards or punishments) that are in the near future, rather than years off. Death is something we often consider to be far, far off. Too far for us to be overcome with fear by, until some event (like your airplane's engine failing) moves it into the near future.
Yeah I think Elphie pretty much said it. Unless they are lying in a hospital/nursing home, most people aren't thinking about their death. Most young people assume they will die at an old age even if they don't. Young people especially, when they think of their death, will think of a far off event. It is not pressing or tangible, only an abstract idea in our heads. It is only when death becomes tangible, real, possible, that we begin to fear it.
ReplyDeleteHahaha. As to your second question about whether someone is kind if they fulfill another person's sexual desires, that very well could be what Aristotle is saying. Different times, man.
As far as kindness goes, I think it's important to consider what Aristotle says before that line, which is "Kindness... may be defined as helpfulness towards some one in need, not in return for anything, nor for the advantage of the helper himself, but for that of the person helped" (Aristotle 76). So if we go by the original example of sex, I guess it's only kind if the giver isn't receiving any benefit from the act, which I suppose is possible.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that views on sexual desire were significantly different in Aristotle's time, so it's probably not a great example to use anymore for kindness (as we've seen). I think the more important part about kindness is the selflessness of a kind act and the need for that act.
I think you've misinterpreted the anger quote you listed by Aristotle. The way I interpreted it, Aristotle was saying that you will be more angry with a friend who has slighted you than with a stranger because you expect your friends to always be kind and respectful of you, whereas all people, whether they admit it or not, are always suspicious of people they don't know. In the latter case, you won't be as angry over a slight of the same magnitude simply because you somewhat expected it to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI too agree with what Elphie has started. We humans are only interested in the immediate—we care for and are motivated by events that are going on now, not events in the distant future. Things of the distant future are not relevant or real to us today, so we are better off spending our time, effort, and emotional capacity on things that are most current, for these things affect us today. As such, death only becomes something to be feared when it becomes real to us, that is it becomes current and relevant today.
ReplyDeleteAs to Gordon: I’m not sure a prostate exam, or any sort of medical checkup is necessarily motivated by fear. If I went for a medical checkup today, I would do so not because I feared death, but because I desired to be healthy. I think there is a difference, however subtle, between fearing death and desiring life.
In response to your question about anger, I think in this situation it would still be classified as anger. If a person expects someone to make them angry and they do, the person is angry, but, in addition, that person feels a sense of accomplishment (“Aha! I knew it! I was right!”). In response to your question about fear, I think Aristotle is only excluding death as a fear because for the majority of people death is a very long way off. However, I think Aristotle would say that death does become a big fear when it is close at hand like in the scenario you have created including the teenager. I like your question about kindness lol. I think in this situation the person who desires sex would probably appreciate it and see it as kind. However, I imagine the person giving it would only feel sympathy or compassion but not really any desire if they are only doing it because they notice they are in need.
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